Brad Spangler has recently been defending anarcho-capitalism as essentially being the same thing as libertarian socialism (see here and here). While I think that one-dimensional thinking can be misleading and there is an extent to which conflict about such questions can be based on semantics, I believe that Spangler is stretching it here and going too far in his own use of semantics and obfuscating certain distinctions between norms commonly held by the groups in question. The problem, as I see it, partially revolves around how he is defining his terms relative to other people that commonly apply those same terms to themselves.
Spangler holds up Murray Rothbard as a libertarian socialist. A number things must be noted that give this claim a context: Spangler is talking about a "left-rothbardian" interpretation of Rothbard that is not shared by the vast majority of "rothbardians" (particularly those associated with the Ludwig Von Mises Institute), this is only one era in Rothbard's thought that is being refered to (late 60's and early 70's), and Rothbard came to abandon that position. In fact, by the time we get to the 80's, it seems quite clear that Rothbard drifted (back?) "rightward" to a significant extent.
The early formation of agorism was partially based on a split between Rothbard and Konkin. Of course, Konkin viewed himself as "more rothbardian than rothbard", as merely taking Rothbard's premises to a more radical and logical conclusion. But even if one wants to think of it as having its roots in Rothbard's ideas, it still constitutes a deviation relative to the man's own views and the views of many of his adherants. Insofar as agorism is only thought of as a different strategic viewpoint for obtaining anarcho-capitalism, then I suppose there isn't much of a significant distinction. But insofar as it is based on a "left-rothbardian" interpretation of libertarianism, I think it must be admitted that it is a distinct system of thought from the "plumbline" of anarcho-capitalism.
With Rothbard and agorism aside, there are much more important reasons why I don't think it makes sense to pretend that the general paradigm of anarcho-capitalism is indistinguishable from libertarian socialism. Most fundamentally, they are very clearly distinguished in terms of their norms about property, and I don't think that such differences are trivial. Generally, anarcho-capitalism is based on a quite specific conception of property that essentially every libertarian socialist I've ever encountered rejects. Indeed, it is considered authoritarian. Likewise, the vast majority of anarcho-capitalists that I've encountered tend to consider the norms of libertarian socialists to inherently violate liberty.
Now, I'll be the first person to admit that sometimes these conflicts are based on mutual misunderstandings. I most certainly think that simple "pro-property" vs. "anti-property" is an oversimplification. But I do not think that it is entirely semantic in nature. I don't think that we can make such issues go away by playing with language. Libertarian socialists do not believe in non-proviso lockean property. One can come up with theories about how non-proviso lockean property can possibly include socialistic models of economic organization until one's brain explodes, but that would still be based on the overall framework of the property norm, which libertarian socialists reject.
One could say that "we all believe in non-aggression, so the distinctions are moot", but even non-aggression is going to be defined partially based on what property norm one assumes ahead of time. At the practical level, this means that it isn't even the same "non-aggression principle" being adhered to, since whether or not a given act is going to be considered offense or defense will vary. One could say that "we all oppose the state, so the distinctions are moot", but as long as one party considers the other's norms to justify or imply a state anyways, one group's "anti-statism" will be another group's "transition from one state to another" or "the establishment of a situation that is a sufficient condition for a new state forming". And that's exactly what the anarcho-capitalist's norms imply from a libertarian socialist perspective.
There are some people that could be said to occupy an ambiguous space that exists between the general paradigms of anarcho-capitalism and libertarian socialism, such as various elements within the Alliance of the Libertarian Left. But that's just the thing: the Alliance of the Libertarian Left and related tendencies are not representative of the norm in market anarchism. If anything, it has a certain heretical flavor relative to the orthodoxy of both anarcho-capitalism and social anarchism. On one hand, it can be considered reconciliationist or a mixture of ideas from both paradigms. But relative to the "hardline" of both paradigms, it very clearly is deviationist; it defies or breaks the norms.
Some market anarchists (particularly those with left-libertarian inclinations) think that if you get rid of the state, "capitalism" as we know it dissapears. To an extent, this makes sense if we understand "capitalism" to depend on state intervention in terms of property titles and an assortment of legal constructs that have had the function of restricting competition to the dominant "capitalist" models of economic organization. I'm sympathetic to this viewpoint myself. But the analysis could be taken further: if we still hold the same property norms in general(particularly with respect to land), then we haven't avoided the foundation of states. If we view the matter from another conceptual level, the dominant anarcho-capitalist position on land should logically justify if not consequentially lead to states or state-like entities.
This, I believe, cuts much deeper to the heart of what the issue of contention is all about. It isn't merely a matter of rejecting the current distribution of property titles and thinking that in the absence of a state such an arrangement could not sustain itself. It's a matter of how such an arrangement forms in the first place and the relationship between specific property norms and authority. By the very least, as long as anarcho-capitalists continue hold on to certain territorialist notions, they haven't overcome authoritarianism from a libertarian socialist perspective. The problem cannot be completely chalked up to the influence of already-existing states. It's not as if, regaurdless of norms about property, a given state falls and then everything just works itself out into libertopia.
The discussion is not merely about what one thinks the consequences of getting rid of currently existing states are, but what the consequences of various norms about property and liberty are, partially in relation to the question of state formation. It's a different level of analysis altogether. Considerations about this matter is part of why I think that "anti-statism" in the sense of calling for the abolition of currently existing states to be necessary but insufficient by itself to foster a free society. I don't believe that you automatically have a free society simply because a given state falls, I think that a free society will be contingent on a culture of freedom, and precisely what is involved in a culture of freedom (including norms about property) is up for debate.
Part of why I think that Spangler's claims are misleading is that he seems to think that if you think that the state intervenes to uphold an unjust allocation of property and that the consequences of abolishing the state naturally lead to a redistribution of property, this makes you a libertarian socialist, but that's not what libertarian socialism is defined by. It involves fairly specific notions about property at a different conceptual level, and it doesn't entail a reduction of the issue to the pre-existance of a state. This is why his statements confuse some people, both libertarian socialists and anarcho-capitalists, because we're not talking about the same thing here.
Zero-Fifths of a Person
3 hours ago





15 comments:
BP, this is by far the best treatment of the anarcho socialist/capitalist dichotomy. Thanks for this!
I think that this is the main reason why anarchism is nonsense. Anarcho-capitalists will reject social anarchist property models as criminal (violates natural rights) and anti-liberty, authoritarian. Social anarchists will reject anarcho-capitalist property models as authoritarian and therefore - criminal.
For anarcho-capitalists "anarchy" is lack of tteritorial government (as opposed to nonterritorial), but social anarchists (and left libertarians) define it as lack of government in general, or equal authority.
Now, if we reject any notion of government (embrace anarchism), how we can support nontteritorial government or rulership (DRO's), communitarian ostracism web (mutual protection), or direct democracy (rulership of majority)? What remains? Voluntaryism and anarchism can be seen as opression from some perspectives, there is no essential meaning of "liberty", "authority", or "equality". After you realize this fact, you no longer can dream about true, objective liberty or anarchy, because there is no such thing. Then you start to see that statism is based on same bullshit and we are left with nothing. Ex nihilo, ad nihilo.
Why you continue to believe in libertarianism? You already have shown long-standing internal conflicts in this ideology and thre is nothing better in this mystical centrist position, because it's deals only with "things" on both sides, but never looks on centrist dogmatism.
You are ignoring your own dogmatism about selft-interest, freedom, authoritarianism, rights and virtue... Please, try to think about these beliefs, try to look from different perspectives and you will see the absurd.
P.S. soorry for my english, but I hope that you understand.
Make an exercise: formulate your own political vision and try to adapt criticism from different anarchist perspectives (mutualist, anarcho-capitalist, anarcho-communist...). This will reveal the major contradictions.
Then ask yourself the answer to one question: why do you think that you are fairer (more objective) than others?
We can't escape dogmatism.
Go away, nihilist.
Kregus, wtf is wrong with you?
Kregus makes some good points. Why not address them instead of just calling him a nihilist? As if that's a counterargument. Do you really have no defense? I'm disappointed in you, BP.
Okay, Kreg, if you're still reading this. I'll take a whack at it.
Consider the idea that everyone has a given amount of power that naturally derives from their will. This acts as a force in the real world. Because each person is different, their wills are also different and hence conflict arises when contradictory powers meet. These conflicts may escalate into war or they may stabilize into barriers. On a small scale, this results in property boundaries. Larger groups may form nations. The degree to which these barriers are enforced or the amount of conflict required to hold these barriers in place determines how centralized or monopolized authority becomes and thus how state-like a given society is. The anarchist problem is then to find a way to relieve this pressure in order to decentralize authority once more. The question is, how far to take it. Should it be reduced to a few trading fiefdoms or all the way to communism? Yes, I know I answered your question with a question but I hope I cleared things up a little.
PART I
I am very sympathetic to Spangler's description of anarcho-"capitalism" as a stigmergic socialism. There is no reason why a stateless society cannot encompass both voluntary communes and voluntary firms, and there is no reason why libertarian "socialists" and anarcho-"capitalists" cannot maintain a mutual respect for one another, which includes leaving each other free to pursue their lives and voluntary social interactions without forceful restraint.
In fact, it seems that a "culture of freedom" must respect these divergiant wishes in order to retain statelessness.
Any "anarcho"-capitalist who tries to force the communists and socialists into owning property, trading property, &c.--based on some crazy view that voluntarily sharing property is "criminal"--can only lead to statism.
Likewise, any "libertarian" socialist who tries to force capitalits and syndicalists into surrendering property--based on some crazy view that voluntarily homesteading property is "criminal"--will also lead invariably to statism.
In anything, Spangler's approach to political philosophy appears aimed at creating a "culture of freedom" necessary for maintaining a peaceful, stateless society. His arguments aim to bring anarcho-"capitalists" and libertarian "socialists" together, as we ought to be. His objective is to build the MLL with rhetoric that disarms the vulgar "libertarians" and the vulgar "socialists" alike. I therefore would like to see the Spanglerian approach grow in popularity, for I do not believe a truly libertarian society will arise or maintain itself unless the various anarchist factions learn to live together peacefully.
PART II
With that said, I'd like to make a few comments about Rothbard. Rothbard was a leftist by 1965, and evidence indicates that he may already have been one much earlier. He left National Review, if I remember correctly, by 1960, and was already an anti-anti-communist.
Rothbard's rhetoric shifted rightward toward the late '80s, but he was still clearly his same self in the early '80s. When one reads The Ethics of Liberty (1983), for example, one cannot help but to be struck by how radical his views are, in complete and stark contrast to the Hoppean introduction that illogically and incorrectly describes Rothbardian thought as conservative. I suspect that many of my fellow left-libertarians incorrectly assume that Rothbard had drifted rightward by 1980 based on Hoppe's strange introduction. But when one consider's the work itself, one sees the introduction as strangely out-of-place. The left-libertarians who assume that Rothbard drifted rightward by this point would be well-advised to simply ignore Hoppe's introduction.
Rothbard's rhetoric definitely drifted rightward by 1990, but by 1996, he was drifting leftward once again, having given up on Buchanan and seen the failure of the Republican Revolution. I sincerely believe that if Rothbard had lived to this day, he would have been right there with Rockwell denouncing the Red-State Fascism and aligning himself with the radical left. Rothbard's rightward shift was a temporary mistake, and I highly suspect that Rothbard would agree.
When Rothbard did shift rightward, it was out of hope to see the return of the Old Right, a return of an isolationist right. His desire for peace was what motivated him, and had he known in advance that the right was hopeless when it comes to challenging interventionism, hopeless even after the fall of state communism, I doubt he would ever have re-aligned himself with the right in the first place.
(And, if Block is correct in his view that Kinsella would have converted Rothbard on the issue of copyrights had Rothbard lived, then Rothbard would today be even more consistantly libertarian or left-libertarian today than he had been back in the day.)
In any event, it's certainly the case that Rothbard did not cease being a leftist in the early '70s. He did criticise elements within the New Left at that time, but only because the New Left was not remaining as pure as it had been when he first encountered it. Still, he retained his left-libertarian outlook throughout this entire period.
Rothbard's history of America appears to me clearly leftist, for example, despite it being produced in the late 1970s. Rothbard clearly aligns himself with the liberals and against the conservatives, clearly challenges large land-grants from the Virginia company and champions the slave revolts, &c. Although I have only finished a third or so of the first volume, I think it is a very valuable look at the birth of America for any anarchist of any stripe (save, perhaps, for the "anarcho"-monarchists).
Ultimately, I believe it is a mistake to attribute only a tiny swath of Rothbard's life as a left-libertarian. Certainly he made the mistake late in life in adopting some rather disgusting rhetoric, but I tend to look at this, rather than his work in the '60s, as being his deviation.
Best regards,
Alex Peak
"Kregus makes some good points. Why not address them instead of just calling him a nihilist? As if that's a counterargument. Do you really have no defense? I'm disappointed in you, BP."
I've already dealt with Kregus in the past. For one thing, what's he's bringing up isn't relevant to the topic of my post. For another thing, it's something I've already talked with him about, and he brings it up over and over again on every post that comments on, when it isn't relevant to the post.
Response to Alex Peak's part I: That isn't the question I'm addressing. I'm not talking about peaceful co-existence of different groups. Spangler isn't exactly talking about that either - he's claiming that there's no meaningful distinction between the groups, and I explained why I think that this is misleading.
Furthermore, I don't think that pluralism is coherant without being contextual to a basic normative conception of freedom. The issue is that, at a fundamental level, some of the normative conceptions of freedom clash. It isn't merely about aggression vs. non-aggression. Beyond questions of physical force, there are different conceptions of what is authoritarian and what isn't.
Interesting write up, BP. I tend to agree with you that anarcho-capitalism is certainly not libertarian socialism ( whatever that means? lol - I'm taking the anarcho-syndicalist interpretation of it , forgive me.) I'm gonna take this further, any system which advocates ( at least under some conditions , absolute or not) private ( or personal-individual) ownership of capital ( i.e. it's allowed) is at odds with libertarian socialism. There is no private ownership over the tools of production , this is completely counter to pretty much all socialist ideology including libertarian socialism and the various anarchist schools. In fact , it is at the heart of libertarian socialism vs private property.
Lets be honest for a second. Any ownership over LAND property creates a 'state' of sorts , i.e. sovereign rule over a geographic area , no matter how small , maybe even a few hundred sq ft. This is at total odds with all socialist thought I can think of and mending a bridge seems futile.
This necessarily creates an authoritarian condition. If you own a house on a piece of land then as an extension you really own that parcel of land too ( i mean , unless your front yard and the soil foundation of your home can not be yours ( i.e. make a basement for yourself or a front lawn- you wouldn't be acting justly).
If anarchism means absence of all hierarchies then certainly any sort of proprietorian concepts ( no matter how less absolute than some rigid 'ancapism') is incompatible with anarchism by this definition. But, that doesn't answer the question of whether any concept of property rights is wrong or not no matter if it fits the traditional definition of anarchism or not.
About, of course he was no libertarian socialist. He did not desire the abolition of private property ( by this I mean individual ownership over the tools of production - as a socialist would define it). Even his leftist era is not libertarian socialism for the same reason. Less Rothbard denounced all forms of private property it made him no socialist ( libertarian or authoritarian- one might argue that socialism is also inevitably authoritarian- worse so than proprietary theory - but doesn't answer the question of whether it is wrong or not still.)
I know you're gonna scold me for this :P . Bring it on , sexy ! :P
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